From M-Dub's training journal, I wanted to carry on the conversation here.
 
The discussion was how much rest should one have before a contest. 10 days, 7 days, 5 days, decending loads?
 
I have friends that will train upper body on Tuesdays and Lower body on Wednesdays and still compete on Saturdays. They also do 20-30 contests a year as well.
 
Thoughts?

By Mike Westerling:
 
Hey M-Dub!
I know I'm no one in the sport but way back in the beginning Steve kirit told me to take 10 full days off before a contest and I have had my own best performances whenever I have. In the few contests I have done that I only took a week off I have had very poor performances. The best i have done in a contest so far was when I took 10 days off before and hadnt hit events heavy in over 3 weeks because i wanted to make sure an injury was healed up.
Good luck M-Dub! I'll be rootin for you! Especially at Christmas time when they finally air it and we already know how everyone did-lol!
-Mike
 
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By Pete Konradt
 
Sorry Mike,
 
I'm going to have to adamantly disagree with your 10 day off policy. There are a number of reasons why this will actually hurt your performance and maybe is a good topic for a new article. Through some light research the best way to prepare for a contest is to drop percentages before the show most guys see some great results with
week 1 at 80%
Week 2 at 60%
Week 3 at 40%
The first week at 80% is normal training except you never go to failure. The second week at 60% is easy and may be nerve racking because we are stressing about the contest. The third week is at 40% and a light sweat or worm up should be achieved.
 
Also note that this three week period is normally preceded by a ramping up period and is a very simplistic form of periodization. If you want to find out more about it you can check out this link to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_periodization then read some good books by fallowing this link to Amazon http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=periodization&x=16&y=19 You can’t go wrong with a book written by Dr. Tudor Bompa.
 
I also don't do much static stretching during this time because it just elongates the muscle and can make you weaker.
 
Sorry but this is why we started this site; there is just too much misinformation out there.

Really hoping that Pete can give us some more exact examples of what he would suggest an athlete do leading up to a BIG SHOW.

M-Dub
You’re in a way doing what I was talking about. To take 10 days off vs what you’re doing is different. So in a way by staying active you through your recovery you have found a benefit to your overall performance. I just think that if you took a more technical approach not just doing the limited method I talked about earlier but putting some research in by reading one of the books I suggest from Amazon or wherever resource you would see even better performance related results.
 
I have to admit I have limited knowledge of is periodizatoin. It has worked for some of the top Olympic athletes for years. I have also seen the benefits in other athletes. I'll try to respond with some more on the post that Clint started.
 
Much respect and good luck at WSM,
 
Pete

Here is a short continuation of how I understand the principle of periodzatoion to work.
In general terms there is a time line set up. This can very by lifter or sport in which the athlete partakes. There are three general parts, first the load phase, second the deload phase or active rest and recovery phase, and third the competition itself.
 
THE LOAD PHASE is a phase of lifting where the athlete increases efforts for a period of time 6 weeks or more trying to peak at 100%. I would call it increasing the LOAD. During that phase we load our training by maximizing one, two or all of these three things:
increasing the amount or sets and reps of the same weight (volume)
increasing the weight
speeding up the duration of time spent training the same volume of work
Hopefully if the calculations are correct the athlete will reach their maximum potential the last week of that loading phase of the lifting time line.
 
THE DELOAD PHASE or active rest phase is the phase where we lower the three that we just increased over a period of time. I find three weeks to be the most beneficial for what we do as Strongmen. I would spend the next thee weeks decreasing the load by about 20% over the next three weeks consecutively. So the lifter would go from 100% down to 80% down to 60% and then to 40%. Bare in mind these are rough numbers.
 
THE COMPETITON at this point the athlete should exceed the earlier 100% output by about 10-15%. Not a bad day at the competition where most athletes should see their best or peak performances.
 
The reason why this works is because during the load phase we are loading or hopefully overloading the body to 100%. As the body recovers from this the muscles are the first to bounce back and is why the athlete feels strong in the 2nd week of the deload phase. However the nervous system and the muscular skeletal system including the tendons and ligaments are still recovering. So what were doing is waiting for optimal performance.
 
In the third week of recovery things start to come together and we start to cross into a higher level of performance. In the contest phase the nervous system and the muscular skeletal system including the tendons and ligaments will overcompensate and actually allow a higher level of performance allowing us to perform at a level that is usually above our normal range getting us to 110-115% of our normal max.
 
How this works is much more complicated. The best way is to illustrate it so I hope that it shows up. This is why I tell people to go to a book because it is a huge subject to try to handle in this format.
 
 
 
 
 
It can take time to become an expert at something like this and is an individual process. So it may take a couple of tries to dial this in. I can however grantee results just from the simple version I have shown.

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Last modified: 11 Sep 2009, 3:09 AM

I guess the graph I made didnt show up so I will put this up as an article after I refine it a little.
 
Much respect,
 
Pete Konradt Sponsored Athlete

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Last modified: 11 Sep 2009, 3:16 AM

My 2 cents on training up to a contest.
 
I think that if you are looking at a powerlifting meet, the 80%/60%/40% thing makes sense. Strongman is a different animal. In a powerlifting meet, you are trying to get just maximal strength out of your body. Cardio, foot speed, agility, and skill are largely taken out of the equation. Skill being relative as a PL needs 3 lifts, strongman uses upwards of 30. Strongman meets need to be deloaded a little bit more like a football player would for a big game. They will still practice skills and do scrimages(moving and loading events) but drop way down on hitting/other things that are super hard on the body(heavy barbell work/pressing/deadlifting). In strongman, we are athletes and should treat it as such.
 
So, I would say a month or so out from a big meet(ie one that is important), you follow the 80/60/40 on your big lifts/OHP/deadlifting, but still take relatively heavy event work. If you can't handle 80% of contest weight on a yoke/farmers/stones/etc. the week or two before a show, you may not be ready for your contest.
 
As to the stretching comment, I think it is misapplied. The studies that I read say that static stretching will make you weaker if you do it right before a lift. What it ignores is that static stretching, if done with some regularity, will allow your muscles to recover faster and work far better in athletic situations. I find that I feel better after lower body workouts if I stretch right before I do them. Your mileage may vary.

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I agree with Matt about stretching. I use it on recovery days and after workouts and it makes me feel alot healthier. There are different schools of thought as far as static stretching before lifting is concerned. Alot of people believe that the strength loss is very minimal and the injury prevention is worth it. I static stretch my hips and use some other static stretching that Mag Mobility recomends. I basically have followed their routines for awhile and feel great, but they recomend SOME static stretches before a workout.
 
As far as deload is concerned, I personally feel better lifting heavy up to a week before a competition and then use plyos and really light stuff the week before. Everyone is different though and there isn't any one size fits all in strongman. I know you really can't get any stronger lifting heavy right before a show, but it has been the way I have always done it. I tried the whole gradual deload thing and it just did not fit me. It works great for a lot of people though.

Matt is right on with his assessment of the differences between a deload for a powerlifting contest and a strongman contest.
 
The whole point of a deload of course is to be not only in a fully recovered state, but preferably to be in a supercompensated state where performance can be above and beyond conventional expectations.
 
The key element to a deload is the volume. This must be reduced for recovery and hopefully supercompensation to take place.
 
One doesn't want to totally eliminate high intensity training as part of the deload as this is key for keeping the neuromuscular system "primed", however as with the submaximal volume, maximal training volume within the confines of the deload must decrease as well.
 
If one refers to my Block Periodization article it will be noticed that the training residuals for what most strongmen will need last anywhere from 15-30 days after the last stimulation of that given ability. The biggie that doesn't last that long of course is maximal speed. Speed is directly tied into the nervous system so it becomes clearer that we need to make sure the nervous system is recovered and fresh without being detrained.
 
As has been stated above the deload is a variable thing to be certain and what I've done with it is as follows:
 
The last week of the contest, Sat being the contest day, I'll train the squat and deadlift on Mon, going up to 90% for easy singles, no more than three total, Tues I'll train overhead press, following the same format, total sets of 1-3 reps being approx five total. My last event training day was on Sat, light, form only. Then Wed-Fri I get deep tissue massage work done, I do lots of foam rolling and stretching, Epsom salt baths and the like. I also tend to increase my protein intake even more than usual for the extra recovery.
 
The stretching is key. Matt is correct about static stretching being counter-productive pre-workout, many studies can verify and support that, however post-workout it tends to really shine its benefits. Active stretching has been shown to be the more beneficial way to go pre-workout.
 
This is a great thread, great job on starting this Clint. Now if you just get yourself an avatar all will be good, don't force me to start calling you Brian Walsh

Great feedback.
Matt, Heath and Walsh have put out some sound advice. I would leave it to the individual to do some research and come to a conclusion of what works best for them.
 
My regiment is similar to the one I showed but that is just me. I tend to just lower the weights and do the same amount of sets and reps.
 
Good Luck

Pete,
 
The part that really got my attention was this:
 
"THE LOAD PHASE is a phase of lifting where the athlete increases efforts for a period of time 6 weeks or more trying to peak at 100%. I would call it increasing the LOAD. During that phase we load our training by maximizing one, two or all of these three things:
increasing the amount or sets and reps of the same weight (volume)
increasing the weight
speeding up the duration of time spent training the same volume of work."
 
I "think" that one could easily work through a "deloading phase" by simply working at your 80/60/40%'s of those loading parameters that you set-up. Of course, you couldn't be exact, but could be used as a rough guide.

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Wow what a great thread!!! I really find that rest before a contest is absolutely my hardest part of getting ready for shows and I truly believe it is highly overlooked, especially in strongman.
 
Matt- Are you saying that you should be handling 80% of contest weight on events the week before a show? If so i would have to say that I disagree with this, I believe in keeping my nervous system primed and in as much I will hit some light events tomorrow and do none the weekend before I leave. This way my knees ankles, elbow, wrists, etc. will be completely pain free when the show begins.
 
Colossus (lol)- How is 90% beneficial that close to a show? No strength gain is going to be achieved...couldn't a better result be achieved by just doing more active rest in the way of cardio or very light maybe even explosive weight training?
 
Pete- I like the periodization you set out but I do agree with Matt..surely some modification has to be made for the athleticism required in strongman?

You guys are also taking for granted that you KNOW the events and the weights.
 
My last few shows, I had no idea what the events were going to be till the day of the contest, much less the weights that were going to be used.

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Hey M-Dub, good question about the 90%. You are correct in saying that I won't be gaining any additional strength within the last week using sub-maximum weights equaling only 90% of max. However, that being said the reason I go with this is simply to keep my nervous system primed for the upcoming effort.
 
I have personally found that even though I will not detrain the ability of maximum strength by taking off 7 or for that fact even 14 days off of training all together, I have seen the unhappy end result of coming back to the high end weights after such a period of time and finding them to "feel" very heavy. Though I may execute the desired number of reps with a given weight, I always find it much more laborous than I would have anticipated.
 
The Russian training literature cites such problems as well and their answer was to keep the intensity high so that the nervous system, which is the fastest part of the weight training athlete's body to detrain would not "go soft" prior to competition. Depending on the given scenario the Russians would have their athletes taking 90%+ lifts as late as 48hrs prior to competition, with the actual volume of lifts being very small.
 
I incorporated the same strategy into my pre-contest deload and have been very happy with the end result. I feel that I'm able to generate high end output without having to basically "struggle" with the event weights feeling so heavy. Add in the adrenaline of competition day and so far, so good with my approach.
 
I should also stress M-Dub, much like the Russians, my volume on the deload week is very, very small. After adequate warm-up, I will take a triple at 70%, then an easy single at 75, 80, 85 & 90% for each of the big three lifts and that is the workout on a given day during a deload week.
 
I also have tried what you mentioned about explosive work done on the light side and have found that for the purpose of keeping my nervous primed for heavier endeavors this was not terribly effective for myself.
 
I think Clint also has a valid point about the lack of forthcoming knowledge in regards to events, however that being said that is why I always deload with the same three exercises, deads, squats and overhead press. Regardless of what the events are going to be at a strongman contest, you know you'll press overhead, you know you're going to be using the posterior chain to a huge extent and you know the hips will be vital. I figure as long as these areas of my body are ready to handle heavy weights, what I may not know about the exact events will be handled by my increased focus due to competition adrenalin as well as the fact that I'm fortunate enough to train at the Boiler Room with Pete and the guys and there isn't much that Pete doesn't have from an event standpoint available there to work with so I can and have trained on just about anything I'll see in competition. Not having a training scenario such as my own will make going cold into contests a touch more difficult, but I'm still a firm believer in strong is strong and the body will adapt as needed during competition provided the base line strength is in place.

Dub-
 
I'm not saying that you should do 80% the week before the show. An example would be if you have a 900 lbs yoke at a contest for 30 meters. If doing a 720 lbs yoke the 2 weeks before a show kills you, you've got bigger problems then deloading. I think doing a yoke like that leaves the CNS primed, but shouldn't kill your body. 80% on a moving event just isn't that much.
 
 
Clint-
 
When I did the Champions League stuff this year, I was finding out the events the day I was flying out. So I just trained like normal up the shows and treated them like training days. Heavy ass training days with some awesome competitors though!

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Dface: (Matt?)
 
What Champions League shows did you do this year?
 
I actually prefer not knowing the events before the show. Takes a lot of the stress off and creates a better Strongman.
 
I got to a contest in Hungary and the contest promoter did not even pick me up for the contest, so the next day my buddy and I drove up to Bratislava, Slovakia to watch the Champions League. I should have thrown my gym bag in the car!!!

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Colossus- Thanks for the VERY informative reply...do you think that the 90% effort could be related at all to the oly lifting..I mean this principle goes against everything in powerlifting...and I don't really know what your level in strongman is but are you doing maximal weights in shows? I agree completely with your thought process on not letting the weights "feel heavy" but I just feel that 90% is far too heavy to go that close to a show..but I will say I did go that heavy getting ready for shows for a long time and it worked ok I did good (even making it as far as the Mohegan sun twice) but I noticed a DRASTIC improvement when I started resting more (winning in Romania was the major discovery).
 
Matt- I see exactly what you are saying now.
 
Clint- I would like to see more shows where events are not known, I think then athleticism would really come into play.

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Hey M-Dub,
 
Yes the percentage is related to Olympic lifting, but they would actually have their athletes go up to 95% the week of a competition for a single to guage what the 2nd and 3rd attempts would be.
 
Since the powerlifts, particularly the deadlift in my case, is a much slower lift than either the Snatch or the C&J, I opted to try topping out at 90% instead of 95%. I also should stress that I'm using my gym maxes for these percentages, not my powerlifting competition maxes.
 
At this point I'm competing as an amateur in strongman with this being my first serious year as a competitor, the previous couple of years being more just "goofing" off with the sport and seeing what happens. I'm not sure yet how far I'm going to try and push, I'll be 40 next April and I've got some injury issues that have been close companions of mine for years now, so I just don't know if I've got a pro push in me or not, but we'll see how it goes.
 
Also, when the strongman season more/less finishes up I switch over to competitive powerlifting and then you are correct about the 90% on the deload, way too heavy and not what I do for that endeavor, so we are definetly on the same page with that one

Clint-
 
I did the Finland show and the Holland show. I'm actually tied for 5th overall in SCL.

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There are a bunch of FREAKS on this board...
 
...I better start eating more.

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